‘Criminal Record’ Boss Reveals What Could Happen in Season 3 After Finale Death (Exclusive)

Should Criminal Record return for a third season, it will do so with a very different June Lenker (Cush Jumbo) after the second season’s shocking finale death and a new dynamic between her and Daniel Hegarty (Peter Capaldi). TV Insider spoke with executive producer Elaine Collins about killing off that character, how it’s affecting June, and much more. Plus, she discusses what we could see in Season 3. Warning: Spoilers for the Criminal Record Season 2 finale ahead!

In the finale, in order to stop bombs around the city, June and Hegarty are forced to make a deal with Cosmo (Dustin Demri-Burns), one that results in him getting immunity, giving up the locations of his men with the explosives (one does turn himself in of his own accord), and becoming an informant. But there’s one last bomb, in June’s car, as she only realizes when it kills her ex-partner, Leo (Stephen Campbell Moore), just as they started to talk like they’d needed to. Six weeks later, June refuses to let go of Cosmo as an informant when Hegarty suggests it when he finds her at a bar.

Below, executive producer Elaine Collins breaks down the Season 2 finale and June and Hegarty’s dynamic in that last scene. Plus, what could Season 3 look like?

Why kill off Leo and in the way that you did?

Elaine Collins: I don’t know. It wasn’t a big choice, and a big debate. I think Paul just decided to do it. And actually, I think even when I watch it now, and obviously I know the show inside out, it still comes as a shock. I mean, I sort of really like the character of Leo, and I think Stephen plays him absolutely brilliantly. I think characters like that can be quite hard to play. So I’m sad to see him go, but I think it’s really shocking when he dies, and the way that he dies.

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What did you want Leo’s death to do to June?

I think what it does to June is it sort of creates a deep well of sadness and guilt in her. And I think that very much echoes what Hegarty lives with. So I think, ironically, this person who’s her bête noir is a person who can recognize most what she’s feeling because he lost his wife. He’s had all the problems with his daughter. So I think it remains unsaid and I love the way it remains unsaid, but in that last scene, that’s why I love it because you can just sort of see that he gets it, that he knows and she knows that he knows and there’s just something sort of … I just love that ending being such a contrast to the ending of Season 1 because what you don’t want to do is just keep repeating yourself. Relationships move on for better or for worse. It’s not going to suddenly be an uncomplicated relationship, but you can’t just keep a relationship in the same place.

Before Leo died, though, June and Leo finally said what they needed to. It was like, this was the conversation they needed to have in therapy —

I know, I know.

So, was it too late for them? If he hadn’t been killed, had there been a chance for them to at least be cordial to each other in a way that we hadn’t been able to see them lately?

I think they could have been. I think they would’ve found a way to be kinder to each other, but I personally don’t feel the relationship could — It’s felt like it’s on its course for a long time to me. One of the things that’s very touching about what happens is how brilliantly Stephen plays that scene, I think. You see something in him that you care for. He’s kind of doing his best. I know sometimes that character irritates people, but I kind of love it because I think he represents a certain kind of man who’s trying to get it right, but is clumsy about it. But I don’t feel he’s a bad person.

I feel like it’s just that it’s a character who’s on the outside of the rest of the show who tends to lose out a bit because he can’t understand, even though you need that outside perspective.

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes you’re sympathetic with what he thinks from the outside.

Can you confirm that it was Cosmo who was responsible for that bombing?

I think he’s ultimately responsible because what he’s done is he’s set off a chain of events. He hasn’t got some guy to go and do it, but I think that’s the subtlety and the beauty of Paul’s writing. It’s never that simple, is it? We are seeing that stuff playing out in Britain at the moment. People who should know better are saying things, and that inspires other people to do heinous things. And so I ultimately think people like him are responsible, but you don’t have to be pulling the trigger to be responsible.

Looking at that last scene with June and Hegarty, which is so fantastic… What had you wanted to do with June and Hegarty’s dynamic all season, and where had you wanted to leave them? Because Season 1, never could I have imagined them sitting together at the end there.

I absolutely love that last scene. I just think that the two of them are brilliant in it. I love this pan out from them at the end of it. I think it’s good because I think that there’s a kind of understanding between them. And I think that’s brilliant because what you don’t want to do is just the same as you did in Season 1, because that’s not what happens with people. People evolve and change, and a lot has happened to them. And I think you see the compassionate side of Hegarty. He knows what loss is, and you see that in Hegarty. He’s lost his wife. He’s got a troubled daughter. And so I think he cares. He knows what it feels like to lose somebody.

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And like you’ve said, they’re more similar than they’re different. So is this also June realizing that?

I think so. I mean, I think she’s much more like Hegarty than she would care to admit. And I think he kind of knows that, but she’s only realizing it.

How have their perspectives of each other changed by the finale?

Paul, right from the beginning, had this great phrase. He felt that Season 2 was the Hegartification of June. And so I think that I personally have always felt they’re more alike than they are different from each other. I think her idealism has been challenged throughout this show, and I think he has a pragmatism that sometimes crosses a line. I think she is becoming more pragmatic, and whether that’s good or not, I don’t know.

Peter and Cush are so great together onscreen.

They have a kind of quite easy chemistry on screen. When you cast people, you never quite know, but from day one, that chemistry was there between them. I don’t know what that magic is. I know that Peter doesn’t generally much like rehearsing. Cush does like rehearsing, but she doesn’t rehearse when she’s working with Peter because I think they like to surprise each other so that a lot of what’s playing out is fresh for them, too. It’s not overthought.

They’ve worked together before because I remember seeing them on Torchwood together.

That’s right. Yeah. And then Peter directed a series called Getting On, and he cast Cush, and then I cast her in Vera. So we’ve known each other over the years through work.

Why has Kieran (Adam Gillen) decided not to go through with the bombing and turn himself over to the police?

Because I think from the beginning, he’s got mixed up with these people, but I don’t think the ideology goes as deep with Kieran. I think he’s got himself in too deep, frankly.

I agree. And then when you see him looking at the kids, it’s like you know that moment. He’s like, “I can’t do this.”

Exactly. I think, particularly nowadays with all this online stuff and bro culture and stuff, I think there must be some very sweet young guys who are lost, too, who disappear down these rabbit holes for a while and hopefully can be rescued.

How do both June and Hegarty feel about how this case ended? Because Billy’s (Luther Ford) free. Cosmo, too. Yes, he’s working for them, but at the same time, still… It’s not that great of a resolution for this case.

I think one of the things we sort of talked about early on was King of Comedy, which I think is a genius film. And the way that the notoriety actually helps Rupert Pupkin at the end. Suddenly, he’s got a book in the bookshop window. And so I think with Cosmo, we did want that. There had to be a trade-off for him to walk. So he has to be an informant, but at the same point, it’s also a bit of a win for him. He gets to be a bit more famous. And I’m afraid that’s what we’re living through at the moment.

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Hegarty says to June, “We can let him go,” but she refuses to. So what would it take for her to let him go?

Yeah, I think she wants to ultimately find out who killed Leo, and I’m pretty sure that Cosmo knows.

Would you say Hegarty is the one who’s the most worried about June at the end? They don’t have many people in their lives, and no one’s going to know them better than the other one at this point, right?

Yeah. I think he cares. I think you can really see it in that scene. I don’t think they’re going to be all sorts of popping around each other’s houses for supper and getting drunk together — well, Hegarty clearly doesn’t drink because he’s the guy drinking the coffee. But I think he does care. I think he recognizes himself and her to a certain extent. I think he respects her.

And he doesn’t want her to end up like him.

No, I don’t think so.

June’s personal life was messy this season, to put it mildly. There’s everything that happened with her son. How would you say that relationship is at the end of the season? Because that was heartbreaking when he left.

Yeah, it’s really heartbreaking. But I think with Jacob, he’s just a boy of a certain age, and understandably, he just wants to be with his dad for a while and with his sisters and in a culture that maybe reflects one that he’s exploring in himself. So I don’t think it’s a breakdown of his relationship with his mom. I think it’s just what I think any teenager would do. But yeah, it is sad because she loves them so much, but I don’t think it’s a reflection, and she’s at work a lot or any of that stuff. I really don’t think it has anything to do with that. I think Paul was very careful to make it about, this is a boy who would just like to be with his dad for a while, I think, as any teenage boy would be, because he’s also got a really nice dad.

And I like that about it, that it’s like we’re not vilifying anyone in this.

Absolutely. I think Paul would be horrified if he thought it read like, “Oh, mum’s always at work.”

It’s so easy to fall into that trope, I feel like, especially with crime dramas. At the same time, it feels like at the end of the season, this is when June would need her son with her the most, but at the same time, may not be in the best position to have him there full-time, right?

Yeah, I think so. But I mean, I think at the end of the day, it would be up to Jacob where he wanted to live. This is not a woman who’s sort of putting her work before her kid. She just happens to be a really professional woman who’s great at what she does. And I think the show celebrates that. I think Leo celebrates that. It’s just that the relationship is breaking down.

Exactly. Speaking of June’s personal life, how had you wanted to use June and JP’s affair to show what she was going through both on and off the clock this season? Because looking at the unit, he was someone that she felt she could trust there, too.

I think that stuff is just impulsive, isn’t it? I didn’t feel at the end overall that this was some great new love affair. It feels like it’s the kind of thing people do when they’re on the edge, and everything has fallen apart around about them. It’s almost like you’re looking for something to, I don’t know, validate the situation or keep you anchored. And I think Cush felt that, too. It was almost like, “I need to do something to anchor myself here. Everything around me is falling apart.” But of course it’s the wrong thing to do, of course.

I like that, that it wasn’t like, “Oh, let’s make this new love story or something.” And it was just like, yes, he lied to about his relationship, but that was just about trust. It wasn’t like, “Oh, I’m so hurt that…”

I felt they both kind of used each other because he wasn’t honest either.

What would you say the chances are of a Season 3?

Well, I guess that’s up to Apple. I mean, it is just up to Apple. It’s not up to me. But we definitely have stories in mind for it. We certainly have something in mind for a third season should they want to make another one.

You’ve talked about now wanting to do the same thing, and that’s why it ends differently in Seasons 1 and 2. So what would you want to explore with June and Hegarty’s dynamic going forward?

I’m not absolutely sure yet because we’re sort of pushing it around the board a little bit, but I think it has to move on. I think Hegarty is Hegarty and June is June. So they’re never going to be best friends, but by the same token, you just can’t have them sort of repeating the same, “Oh, I don’t trust him,” all this sort of stuff. I think it will move on for sure.

And what would you like to explore with them separately, as individual characters?

I think I’d like to explore a little bit more of Hegarty’s personal life in another season and see what June is like post-Leo. What does that look like?

And then, is there anything else you could say about what season three could look like? It would be them working a case together again, obviously. Is there anything else you can say?

Yeah, they can’t be forever bumping into each other or accidentally ending up on the same thing. That would just be silly. I think they would move forward together more, but we’d be throwing some tacks onto the road at the same time.

Criminal Record, Seasons 1 and 2, Streaming Now, Apple TV