How to start and run a record label, as Transgressive celebrate 20 years

The people behind Transgressive Records have spoken to NME about 20 years of running the label that gave the world the likes of Foals, Arlo Parks, and SOPHIE – as well as sharing advice for music-lovers looking to do the same.

The label, founded in 2004 by Tim Dellow and Toby L, with third partner Lilas Bourboulon joining shortly afterwards, has put out records by the likes of Foals, Arlo Parks, SOPHIE, Flume, Mystery Jets, The Subways, Damon Albarn, Alvvays, THE WAEVE, Julia Jacklin, The Antlers and Songhoy Blues – as well as running a management arm that handles the likes of Marika Hackman and a publishing company that works with Black Country, New Road, Loyle Carner and more.

This year, they’ve been celebrating the end of a landmark second decade as a label with a string of shows and parties around the world.

“It’s nice being established and confident, and in a position where you can take some of your biggest creative risks,” Dellow told NME of the label’s legacy after 20 years.”

“I just feel that bit more fearless,” Toby L agreed. “Once you’ve got 20 years behind you, you feel like you’re in this sweet spot between still hungry but with a point to prove.”

Bourboulon added: “The only thing that’s not changing is our enthusiasm and excitement for the music. If anything, that’s broadened.”

Check out our full interview with the three label bosses below, where they told NME about starting out, discovering talent, what’s next, and advice for people looking to start something themselves.

NME: Hello Transgressive Records bosses. What was your manifesto when you first started 20 years ago? 

Toby L: “It started in 2004, when London was in a really exciting time. We really wanted to be a mirror to some of that late night club culture that was going on and people putting on amazing nights. In the same breath, we were contrarians and wanted to shine a light on some of the unheard voices that were outside of the scene.

“In quick succession, we put out a run of singles that were quite opposing. There wasn’t a consistent background of artists. We wanted the company to be very eclectic, dynamic and ethical. We wanted to treat artists with respect and integrity. Our relationship with the music industry was one of healthy distain, shall we say, so we wanted to try and be an alternative to that.”

Lilas Bourboulon: “When you look back at that time, it was so interesting musically – but from a major label point of view, it was a disaster. You had Pirate Bay and illegal downloads as the main way a lot of people were experiencing music.

“We started at a time when there were so many amazing new artists and people had new ways of releasing music. We embraced that as a huge opportunity, rather than being fearful of what was happening at the time.”

Toby L: “At the time, vinyl wasn’t much of a thing. It’s mad to think about that now. But in the early ’00s, it had subsided and gone to the fringes. When we started as a seven inch singles label, we really wanted to put it back to where it was in our hearts. It’s amazing to think of where that progressed too. Within a few years, 12 inch vinyl albums started to become a thing again. I don’t want to sound self-aggrandising, but it’s fair to say we where a part of that.”

Tim Dellow: “That culture came from the more underground, hardcore, math-rocky scene that I was involved in. It was always such an effort to get something pressed on vinyl, but we were all such Steve Albini-worshipping nerds so we wanted to have that experience of making something that a CD just couldn’t give you.”

So you were in love with the physical idea of music?

Toby L: “Yes, we were obsessed over the packaging as well. They were less of a thing in the early ’00s, so if people were going to part with their hard-earned cash, then it was worth it.

“The third single that we ever released, which was The Mystery Jets’ first single ‘Zoo Time’, I remember we spent ages obsessing over the artwork and making sure it had a push-out centre that you could insert and had this additional newspaper covering.

“We really just really fastidious about the details with the artist. For a young generation of artists coming through, to have fellow teenagers who cared just as much about the music they were making, wanting to portray and present it in that DIY but also elevated physical form – it just made it all the more special.”

“Equally though, we were also one of the first labels to be selling download singles with the vinyl copies. We were trying to keep one foot in the camp of where the industry was going as well as the past.”

What makes an artist ‘Transgressive’? 

Dellow: “Oh it’s really easy, we just find geniuses! Whatever genre or area they come from is just us respecting them, understanding them and what they want to put across, and working for them. Life is too short for bad music. You just have to find the thing you really care about and recognise in that person, then go all in.”

Bourboulon: “It’s very much a gut thing, as opposed to looking at the numbers and thinking, ‘Ooh, this artist has interesting stats’ – we’ve never worked like that and never will. When we get a musical slap in the face from a new or established artist, that’s when we know.”

Toby L: “Regardless of where they’re from or their position in society, it’s about artists that are doing something with fearlessness and bravery, as well as a distinctiveness that will hold them in a timeless context. Even though we’ve drifted in and out of scenes, those things are transient. We don’t get caught up in the moment. We’re always trying to sign things that feel timeless.

“The music needs to feel subversive and strange, but equally have the potential to bother the charts every now and then. That’s Transgressive: walking that tightrope between those two ideals constantly.”

Is there a particular slap in the face that comes to mind?

Toby L: “My cheeks are pink from how regular it is!”

Bourboulon: “From listening to Songhoy Blues for the first time, to the first time you listen to SOPHIE’s music, it’s continuous.”

Dellow: “The genius of SOPHIE is musically apparent and obvious from the first microsecond you hear it. Other times, it can be a bit more of a ‘lean in’ thing. Listening to Johnny Flynn for the first time, he was songwriting in a traditional form but put it in a new light. The ideology behind it slapped me in the face.

“We’re open-minded music-loving nerds, and we know and appreciate the history of it. It informs where current artists could sit in the future, and how you can help them get there.”

Toby L: “I’m as entranced by working with an artist who hasn’t released a single song yet as I am by the honour of working with legends. We reissued some At The Drive In albums, we signed Damon Albarn and Graham Coxon plus THE WAEVE. It’s amazing for the artists you idealised as a kid in your bedroom to become part of your weird gang. That’s been beyond wonderful.”

Dello: “It’s about the thrill of the new as well. The first time I saw University, that was fucking wild. Their biggest influences who are The Smiths and Whitehouse, and they play massively chaotic, incredible, emotional hardcore. You’d have to be a real cynic not to be moved by that.”

Toby L: “Or HotWax, who we just signed to publishing. Their debut album is finished and we’ve been hammering it. It’s an unbelievable debut and an instant classic.”

What’s the maddest thing you’ve done as a label?

Toby L: “How long do you have?”

Dellow: “We’ve created an infrastructure where we’re not dependent on one artist. We’ve got quite a safe space for doubling down on esoteric music and ideas and not having to worry so much. You’ve got a bit of protection in your risk-taking, which is really healthy. We’ve done really mad stuff and put on some really risky gigs. Formatwise, we put out crazy editions of KOKOKO with a playable record sleeve made of scrap metal from Kinshasa.”

Did you make much money on that one?

Bourboulon: “One day! Maybe on eBay. For SOPHIE’s first album [‘Oil Of Every Pearl’s Un-sides’, 2018], we made a custom clutch bag and that’s going on eBay for £6000.”

Dellow: “Even in the early days, our first ‘Blue Monday’ in terms of packaging was for Jeremy Walmsley’s amazing song ‘Dirty Blue Jeans’. We decided we’d take it quite literally and had a seven-inch single and DVD double-pack that was stitched in raw denim with a little pocket on the front for the records. It retailed for £1.99 but cost £6 to make – but it was fucking cool.”

Bourboulon: “We’re still paying that one off.”

Toby L: “That was a proper Factory Records moment. We’ve never let practicalities or business models to limit the hope and optimism we have for releasing music and supporting artists. You can talk yourself out of anything if you try and legitimise it. The most important thing to do is to hone in on the long-term of why you’re working with an artist and them reaching their potential.

“If you play the long game, then hopefully all those early risks pay off down the line. If they don’t, then you’ve just done something as pure and real as you intended to. That’s a win in its own way.”

How have your anniversary celebrations been?

Toby L: “Extensive! We wanted to do 20 events for 20 years. I didn’t really think about what it would take to pull them off, but thankfully they’ve been amazing! It’s a difficult era for live music where it feels like on stadium and arena artists are able to succeed and thrive, it’s been wonderful to partner with War Child and Music Venue Trust to put on a slew of parties all across London as well as in Germany, New York, Green Man and Glastonbury.

“We wanted to shine a light on some of the most amazing venues in our capital; from the Lexington through to The Garage and Hammersmith Apollo. We wanted to tell a story in venues of the importance through starting out at the beginning all the way up to headlining massive theatres. It’s been humbling and beautiful.”

Dellow: “These songs have soundtracked all of our lives, so see them given really generously and performed amazingly once again does make you feel like you’re not wasting your life!”

Bourboulon: “They’ve been incredibly rewarding – both from hanging out with our artists and friends, but also just seeing the faces in the audiences.”

Toby L: “Another highlight was Arlo Parks and Marika Hackman battling one hell of a storm in Regents Park. Most promoters and artists would say, ‘No fucking way are we going out on that stage – it’s an electrocution hazard’. But because we’re all madly passionate, we made the show happen. It ended up being one of the best gigs of Arlo’s career, as she battled and skidded against the rain on the stage. That for me was a defining Transgressive moment, where against all the odds and sensible behaviour, we ploughed ahead resiliently to hopefully exceptional outcomes.

“It’s a difficult era in society, but hopefully this has been an opportunity to remember what’s important: collectivism, art and people being together – despite what the higher powers will try and lead us astray from.”

It’s that attitude, isn’t it? You could say that Foals could have only come from a label like Transgressive…

Dellow: “It continues to be a long, creative journey. They’re a band who made some great singles and then an incredible debut album [‘Antidotes’, 2008] that didn’t even feature those singles. Those first decisions were a sign of them really thinking long-term. Then they went and made an even better second record [‘Total Life Forever’, 2010] which is still one of the most magical releases we’ve ever been a part of.

“All of the greats from Talking Heads to Madonna to Bob Marley, all showed that same kind of progression which each record being really distinct.”

Bourboulon: “We’re now seeing a new generation getting into the artists we’ve been working with for a long time, with fans bringing their kids along to shows. It’s incredible to see audiences being there in the long-run and renewing themselves.”

Toby L: “I’m just having a flashback to the first proper time I saw Foals live, which was down the road in the now sadly defunct and burned down first iteration of Nambucca. Foals were playing second to last. It was a heaving room. This was when nu-rave was rife in London off the back of the London indie guitar scene. Everyone was there to see the first band Hadouken – every label and promoter you could imagine. As soon as Hadouken played their last electro-pop banger, the whole room emptied. Not a single person apart from me and the sound person were left. It ended up being this really awkward gig, and maybe two or three other people from the headline band came in, but fuck, it was really special.

“In modern music industry terms, you’re supposed to sign the band with the full room. Even then, we were able to see the difference. Hadouken were perfectly entertaining, but there was only one band there that would clearly be going for years to come. Thankfully, we’ve been proving right.”

Bourboulon: “That happened recently too when we were called in to see HotWax at The George Tavern to an empty room, but it was incredible. That band slapped and we fell in love instantly. We signed them to our publishing company shortly after. When those moments happen, they’re magical.”

Toby L: “We don’t get bogged down in whether or not an artist has fans or statistics yet. When you do, you end up questioning your own values and your own tastes. It really should just be about the art and the people.”

Now with 20 years of wisdom, could a label like Transgressive launch today? What advice would you you give to those looking to get into it?

Dellow: “Definitely go for it. When we started, it was a really bad time for the music industry. There was a lot of confusion due to illegal downloading, but also a lot of excitement due to the transition. There are a lot of parallels with that now. Independence is something you should fight for, because it means you can be distinctive and learn your own way. Collaboration makes it a lot less lonely. Good stuff happens when you have a lot of like-minded people pulling in the same direction. It’s so much better than a real job.”

Toby L: “There’s always room for new ideas in the music world, and we actively encourage it. We like to competitive just for fun, not in real terms, but it’s a wonderful community. I actively encourage and implore anyone that loves music and wants to support musicians to start a label.”

Bourboulon: “There are always exciting new ways to release music, and I can’t wait to see what the next generation comes up with.”

Transgressive’s final anniversary show of the year will be Yannis & The Yaw performing at London’s Shepherd’s Bush Empire on Wednesday December 11 in association with War Child and Music Venue Trust. Visit here for tickets and more information.