[This story contains spoilers for The Conjuring: Last Rites.]
Billed as the “fourth-and-final” film in The Conjuring series, Last Rites has grossed a franchise record of nearly $500 million at the worldwide box office. That puts director Michael Chaves in the unenviable position of having to answer questions about the subfranchise’s future and whether a tenth film is in the cards for the greater Conjuring universe. (If you’re a truther for Chaves’ 2019 feature debut, The Curse of La Llorona, then it’d be the eleventh film.)
“It’s absolutely done. It’s absolutely the end. No more Conjuring movies,” Chaves cheekily tells The Hollywood Reporter in support of Last Rites‘ recent digital debut and Nov. 25 4K release.
In any event, Last Rites very much feels like a sendoff for Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga‘s demonologist characters, Ed and Lorraine Warren. The film even ends with Lorraine’s prophetic vision of their remaining years together as grandparents. But unlike other series cappers, Last Rites didn’t try to be a summation of every demonic threat the duo has ever encountered, instead opting for another familial story by way of 1986’s Smurl haunting in Pennsylvania.
“One of the references that I kept on giving [for a final chapter] was Logan. I’ve always loved how Logan wasn’t this big, sprawling movie where every villain is unleashed on Wolverine,” Chaves says. “These fan-made trailers would show up online, and every demon that the Warrens have ever trapped is unleashed. So I thought it was awesome, but I was like, ‘I’m so glad we’re not doing that version of the movie.’ Ultimately, it would be a very hollow experience.”
Last Rites also ends with Wilson’s Ed essentially passing the torch to his soon-to-be son-in-law, Tony Spera (Ben Hardy), followed by the nuptials between Tony and the Warrens’ daughter, Judy (Mia Tomlinson). The wedding ceremony allowed the franchise to have a sequence à la Tony Stark’s funeral in Avengers: Endgame, where familiar faces from all the Conjuring movies appear and show their gratitude to the family that saved them from various malevolent forces.
To name just a few, Lili Taylor and Mackenzie Foy returned as Caroyln and Cindy Perron from James Wan’s franchise-launching The Conjuring (2013), and Wan himself also cameoed. Sadly, scheduling conflicts prevented Joey King and Ron Livingston from reprising their roles as fellow Perron family members.
But the biggest heartbreak of all involves Vera Farmiga’s younger sister, Taissa Farmiga, who starred as Sister Irene in the Conjuring universe’s two ’50s-set Nun movies. Chaves directed her in 2023’s The Nun II, which confirmed that Irene and Lorraine’s resemblance was not just because the roles were being played by real-life sisters. They’re fictionally from the same bloodline too. Alas, scheduling also prevented Taissa from appearing in the wedding scene, however, she wouldn’t have been aged up with prosthetics to play a 56-year-old Irene.
“The idea of bringing in this long lost relative in Sister Irene, and then also dealing with the difference of age, was too complex once you did the math. It would’ve become too big and too sprawling,” Chaves admits. “I did text Taissa to say, ‘You should show up at the wedding, just as a little glimpse, a cameo. We won’t worry about the [25-year] age gap or anything.’ But she was shooting something, and we couldn’t do that.”
Below, during a recent conversation with THR, Chaves also addresses his own future among the Conjuring universe’s brain trust.
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After a franchise record $482 million worldwide, are we sure The Conjuring: Last Rites is still the last hurrah for Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga’s Ed and Lorraine Warren?
It’s absolutely done. It’s absolutely the end. No more Conjuring movies. (Chaves smiles after his tongue-in-cheek answer.)
Patrick Wilson’s Ed Warren and Vera Farmiga’s Lorraine Warren in Michael Chaves‘ The Conjuring: Last Rites.
Giles Keyte/Warner Bros.
What led to the current decision in the first place? Did Patrick and Vera feel like they’ve gone as far as they can go with these characters?
It really came from a place of wanting to end on our own terms. I love and grew up with the Nightmare on Elm Street series. It’s such a fun, in some ways, horror franchise, and it’s really innovative. They just kept on making those until they couldn’t make them anymore. So the hope with [Last Rites] was to tell a final chapter that would bring it all together and be a really nice close to the series and give people a conclusion.
Your previous Conjuring movie did very well at the box office despite being a day-and-date release ($206 million against a $39 million budget). But seeing what Last Rites put on the board as a theatrical exclusive, have you tortured yourself yet over what The Devil Made Me Do It would’ve done under normal circumstances?
No, not at all. Conjuring 3 was such a hard journey, and it was such a hard movie to make before going into COVID. [Writer’s Note: The pandemic also upended the film’s scheduled reshoot period.] I didn’t even know if the movie was going to come out. I didn’t even know if the world was going to survive. So I look back on that as an incredible victory and an incredible relief. That movie was either the first or second highest-grossing R-rated movie of the pandemic. It even made more money than The Suicide Squad. So the pandemic had a major impact on this business, and while we’re still feeling the repercussions, I totally count that as a victory. It did great considering those times.
We last spoke for The Nun II, and you intimated that the flash of Lorraine’s (Vera Farmiga) eyes in Sister Irene’s (Taissa Farmiga) vision was confirmation that they share the same bloodline. Did you and the rest of Conjuring brain trust know back then that you would at least try to bring them together in Conjuring 4?
That was as far as we could go with that storyline. We didn’t bring Irene into the fourth film, even though I love working with Taissa. I want to work with all the Farmigas eventually. But it just didn’t really work in the [Last Rites] storyline. The focus really was going to be Ed and Lorraine, and their relationship with their child, Judy. So the idea of bringing in this long lost relative in Sister Irene, and then also dealing with the difference of age, was too complex once you did the math. It would’ve become too big and too sprawling.
Going into the movie, one of the references that I kept on giving was Logan. I’ve always loved how Logan wasn’t this big, sprawling movie where every villain is unleashed on Wolverine. It was actually the smallest, most intimate Wolverine story, and by being the most intimate Wolverine story, it’s such a beautiful final chapter because it’s big emotionally.
When we were making Last Rites, these fan-made trailers would show up online, and every demon that the Warrens have ever trapped is unleashed. It was as if Ghostbusters was being applied to the Conjuring. So I saw that and thought it was awesome, but I was like, “I’m so glad we’re not doing that version of the movie.” There’d be a lot of busyness from going through the family tree of demons and Lorraine’s connections. And ultimately, it would be a very hollow experience.
Taissa Farmiga’s Sister Irene in The Nun II.
Warner Bros. Pictures
Wasn’t there a plan to age up Taissa for a wedding appearance?
No, there wasn’t. I don’t know where that was shared from. I did text Taissa to say, “You should show up at the wedding, just as a little glimpse, a cameo. We won’t worry about the [25-year] age gap or anything.” But she was shooting something, and we couldn’t do that.
At least you had Murph from Interstellar present. (Mackenzie Foy played one of the Perron kids in the first film.)
(Laughs.) Exactly.
I forgot Joey King was also in James Wan’s first Conjuring. You can’t include everyone, obviously, but was she or Ron Livingston ever thrown out there?
We were totally talking to them, but they were also shooting something else at the time. If we were all in the same city, then it would’ve been possible for them to just duck over, but we were shooting in England. Honestly, we were trying to get everybody who has ever been in a Conjuring movie into that wedding scene, but we just couldn’t. It’s really hard to schedule something like that.
James Wan’s future involvement in the franchise is reportedly up in the air at the moment, but do you think you’ll have a place at the table in whatever form the franchise takes?
Well, this is the final chapter. This is the last movie. We’re not going to make any more Conjuring. (Chaves again flashes a tongue-in-cheek smile.) I don’t know. It’s been such a great journey, and I’ve loved being a part of it. So I would totally love to be called back.
Patrick Wilson’s Ed Warren, Ben Hardy’s Tony Spera and Vera Farmiga’s Lorraine Warren in Michael Chaves’ The Conjuring: Last Rites.
Courtesy of Warner Bros. Pictures
When you cast the roles of Judy (Mia Tomlinson) and Tony (Ben Hardy) in this film, was the decision made with an eye toward the future as well?
The goal with casting them was just getting the best actors possible. Without a doubt. New Line told me this advice a long time ago, but in terms of planting seeds for sequels, they always say, “Just make the best movie possible and let the audience tell you they want a sequel.” There’s been so many examples through the years of filmmakers planting all these seeds or proposing these big universes and imagining these big slates that never end up going anywhere. The core movie just wasn’t great enough. So it was really just casting the best people possible.
Speaking of sequels, did you get a heads-up that the sequel to your feature debut, The Curse of La Llorona (2019), was on its way?
Oh yeah. I know everybody involved. So I’m very happy and very excited for them.
Lastly, you said something to me a couple years ago that I still ponder from time to time. You said that you were trying to rely less on past films for inspiration and more on outside sources such as photography. Are you still in that same mindset?
There’s this great site called ShotDeck, which became very popular. It has all these images from all these different classic movies, and everyone uses it as a reference. So I was also using that initially, and I thought it was incredible. But so much of The Nun II was inspired by ‘50s street photography, and it’s such a great place to get your ideas. You’re not just referencing movies; you’re actually referencing the real world. You’re getting great ideas from photographers that you might not have heard of before, so I’ve been trying to move into that and find my references from things that are outside of movies. It’s hard because we all love movies, and so it’s natural to have the kneejerk response of, “Oh, it’s just like that movie.” But I think my filmmaking has gotten better when the references I bring to the table are deeper and broader.
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The Conjuring: Last Rites is now available on digital ahead of its Nov. 25 4K UHD Release.
